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While googling around for recipes today, I stumbled upon this outburst:
One warning about Vietnamese food….fish sauce!!! It is one of their favorite seasonings….
The waiter said to me “fish sauce vegetarian!!” and when I explained that I did not want the fish sauce and could he ask the cook to leave it out, he again said, in a slightly louder voice “fish sauce vegetarian!!” (At this point, whether it was or wasn’t vegetarian should have been no concern of his. In fact, I had never said that I was a vegetarian, I had only requested that there be no fish sauce in my meal. His response and reaction were rude at the very least.) He finally went back into the kitchen to ask what dishes did not have fish sauce and came back and told me that every dish contained fish sauce.
Not a happy dining experience and I have not returned there.
No, it’s not vegetarian, but my suggestion to this finicky diner would have been to ask a Greek restaurant instead to go easy on the olive oil. Or fuck off. It’s called nuoc mam, and it’s the soul of the cuisine.
My mom would often stew it with pork and hard-boiled eggs (that would be “clay pot pork” at a Vietnamese restaurant), splash it in with pan-fried chicken, soy sauce, and sugar (the closest thing at a restaurant that I’ve found being “drunken chicken”), or, most frequently, and most familiarly, serve it as a dipping sauce. I believe that nuoc mam in condiment form is properly called nuoc cham, but my mom always called it nuoc mam regardless of how it was used, not unlike the way Texans liberally use the word queso, maybe. You will never find good nuoc cham at a restaurant — to mask the fishiness, it is always loaded with sugar — but it’s easy enough to make it the right way:
Which brand of fish sauce to use? Beats me. My mom says to use any. Some people say that Filipino fish sauce (patis) is inferior, but I can’t say. I’ve read that the best nuoc mam comes from the southern Vietnamese island of Phu Quoc, where the fish is fermented with sea salt in handmade wooden barrels by businessmen as proud as any winemakers, but supposedly cheap nuoc mam from elsewhere is often labelled as if it came from Phu Quoc — bringing to mind the old champagne controversy — but, again, I wouldn’t know anyway. I do know that I recently threw out a bottle of “Phu Quoc” fish sauce that was vile. So. Mom says anything’s fine. Just go easy on the sugar.
By the way, nuoc mam is, strictly speaking, a misspelling. The correct spelling is nước mắm, but that may or may not display correctly in your browser.
comments
none of this, of course, is meant to say that you can’t get good vegetarian vietnamese food. but you have to respect the nuoc mam, dammit.
posted by jacob on April 30, 2003 1:41 AM
i get the red curry noodles at thai noodle house all the time. different region, yeah. but man, they like the fish sauce. i respect that.
posted by sentry on April 30, 2003 5:32 AM
the fish sauce i usually use is actually thai, and it came on recommendation from jacob’s mother one day when we were wandering around the asian market. she also told me in Vietnam that they have, like, ten different kinds of bananas, all better than the ones found at HEB.
mmm. hungry.
posted by tam on April 30, 2003 10:47 AM
i really like the new design, jacob.
posted by gabe on April 30, 2003 12:34 PM
a somewhat-related chef’s thoughts
posted by tam on April 30, 2003 1:43 PM
“The servers often hate to say no to the customer that insists that I broil the crab cakes or deep fry their flounder. I explain to them that they are in my restaurant. And they must have the flounder the way I make it. Personally, I prefer the way Herbert von Karajan conducts Beethoven’s Third Symphony. But I would never ask Zubin Mehta to finish the Adagio with the hesitant 3/8 that Herb finishes with. Nor would I stop a production of Hamlet and ask them to insert a couple of lines from Macbeth because I think they go well in there.”
posted by tam on April 30, 2003 1:46 PM
Three Crab brand is the best.
posted by Fishman on August 14, 2003 10:27 AM
you guys need to be educated more about vietnamese cuisine, you called it nuoc mam if you’ve just bought it from the market and still in the bottle, you called it nuoc cham if you’ve transformed it into a dipping sauce. you’ve to appreciated when it’s in the prepared dish, then you’ll be able to regconized the quality of it. you don’t go to a vietnamese restaurant to says “don’t put nuoc mam in my dish” it’s like going to a pizzeria place and tell the cook “don’t put tomato sauce in my pizza”…he would tell you “GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE YOU FUCKING FREAK” so, consider youself lucky if you didn’t get that respond from the waiter.
posted by nick on January 30, 2004 10:49 AM
Nick, I suppose if you want to shrilly restate any of my other posts, I won’t stop you.
posted by jacob on January 30, 2004 11:30 AM
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